When Ryan (now 7) was 5 we laughed and said we didn't know if we should send him to Kindergarten or law school. Really, grades K-College just seem like a formality to get him to a point where he can use his God-given skills of debate.

I would welcome formal debate training so that his arguments would be formed with a bit more framework.

Right now Ryan's arguments are not what you would call factual.

Dramatic? Yes!

Logical? Not so much.

Yet, his persistency and volume are very persuasive.

So persuasive that you just want to run out of the room, crawl into bed, put a pillow over your head and stay there in the quiet bliss forever and ever...not that anyone would ever do that.

What is it in a child that creates such antagonism?

I say it is time to go.
He says without missing a beat: No, we have 5 more minutes.
I said it was time to go.

I say that you need to eat your dinner if you want dessert.
He says without taking a breath: How many more bites do I need to eat?
I said eat.

I say that school work needs to be completed before play.
He says without batting an eye: I don't turn this assignment in tomorrow so I don't need to do it now.
I said do what I say before I end up on the 6 o'clock news!

I had to break it to him that the Nirvana is not a democracy.
Yep, tough break.

I squashed all dissenting opinions with a far-reaching time-out policy. I have found that although it hasn't ended debate, I do get a break during the time-out.

Another side effect of my debate censorship has appeared...

Ryan has taken to debating people who don't rush him to time-out. This is what was happening at my breakfast table this morning:

Rhett(3): I like toast with peanutbutter and jam.
Ryan(7): No you don't.
Yes I do!
Nope, you aren't telling the truth.
I LOOOOOOVE it.
You don't like it at all.
I do.
Ryan (slightly grinning): You are lying.
Rhett (tears streaming down face): Mommy! Ryan called me a liar!

Really. I would tune in to the news tonight if I were you...

39 comments:

Shauna said...

Maybe we need to put Macy and Ryan in a room together for an hour and see who comes out on top. So funny.

Weaselmomma said...

Think about it. 2-5 without homework and only surrounded by other adults (albeit, not the most desirable). If you manage to get put into solitary, it could be vacation.

Angie Ledbetter said...

I often long to be put away. Three hots and a cot, no housework or herding teenagers...there's a nirvana for ya.

PS My 18-y.o. has had the same wonderful talent since age 2, and guess what? He's going into pre-law in the fall! Guess me telling him all these years he's gonna make a fine lawyer because he'd argue with the devil, made an impact. :oP

Eudea-Mamia said...

Don't Texas inmates have computer privileges?

I only ask because I think we might be good cell mates.

The almost 3-year-old has located all my buttons, and insists on pushing.

spinning in our own direction said...

You make me laugh.. I love the 3 and 7 years old are fighting and people ask why i don't have another kid. Could you imagine.. yet another one for Landry to yell and scream at.. UGGHH.. Hey I wonder if we can get a discount if we send Landyr adn Ryan to the same law school

Manic Mommy said...

This story is shockingly familiar. They choose mornings because you're in a hurry and evenings because you're spent.

This morning's total breakdown was courtesy of Gremlin, who did *not* get the new sneakers HRH was wearing to school. Oy, the tears!

Courtney said...

I love kids that debate - unless they're mine of course then it's not so cute!

jill jill bo bill said...

Oh, I say the "democracy" line daily. It still doesn't work.

Momo Fali said...

I hate to say this, but just wait until he's 10.

Marinka said...

My son is a debater as well. Everything is "can I do this?" "no" "give me three reasons, no, five reasons why not!" And do you know why kids win every debate? Because they have nothing else to do. Their days are totally free to take you on.

Rachel said...

Princess and Ryan in a room.
Go.

:-) That would be fabulous. We could sell tickets.

Jennifer said...

wow. i'm not having much hope here. i have a FIVE year old who does the same thing to his sisters, and also will argue with me about almost EVERYTHING!! ugh. it makes me crazy. Some times it is okay.. I like that he has questions/opinions and will state his side of things, but most of the time I just want him to be quiet and do what I say... and the whole thing with fighting with his sisters makes me crazy... first I have to hear him being a brat, then I have to hear them crying and being upset about it. :P ugh!!

I was hoping, thinking PRAYING that he would outgrow it like today... or at least in a week or two... a few months or at least by the time he turned SIX... now, I have no hope... maybe at Seven and a few months and they out grow it??

lets hope!!

good luck. I'm gathering bail money now... and I have Trevor on retainer for your Lawyer needs... free of charge!... well not totally FREE you will have to keep him for a few weeks... months or something like that... but you have THREE boys already so what would one more be?? :P

hang in there!!
xoxoxox

Aria said...

My mother keeps telling me that kids are cute in self-defense... What I want to know, is how come the cute fades in direct proportion to their up-and-coming verbal skills? You'd think that God would know that this is when their Cuteness-Self-Defense would be even more necessary for their survival...

If you make the news, make sure to mention the blog, all PR is good PR, woman!

Aria said...

PS... love the new layout, looks GREAT! So really, make sure to shout out the blog loudly so they hear it over the announcer's, "Mother kills son. Claims it was in self-defense of her own sanity."

Ron Davison said...

He's 7. He's ready for the news. You look him in the eye and you say, "honey, do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?"

Colleen - Mommy Always Wins said...

Oh lawdie. I'd laugh, but I know your pain! Instead of a debater, though, my son is more like a used car salesman. He's always trying to strike a deal!

Will watch this evening's news for you, just in case!

InTheFastLane said...

I have one just like that. He's 9 now. Some days we do not know how he continues to live.

Valarie Lea said...

Yep, I have an 8 year old debater in my house. Just posted about one of his moments. :)

Jenn @ Juggling Life said...

I have found that a brief period (say a week) of "if you so much as look cross-eyed at anyone in this family you are in your room for the rest of the day" can be very effective.

Headless Mom said...

I think our children were twins in another life.

Insta-mom said...

Our 9-year-old debater is beyond lawyer-ly aspirations. I'm fairly convinced he's well on his way to politician.

Petra a.k.a The Wise (*Young*) Mommy said...

This sounds EXACTLY like my stepson. There are days when I want to run away to the circus. Or a mental institution. They would ask me less questions and leave me alone more there than at home.

Teri said...

I swear, you are describing my youngest son. He always has an alternative plan for every single thing I tell him to do. And I didn't ask for any suggestions.

Elaine A. said...

Well, after the news people get their story over at your house they can come on over to mine. The debate rages on here too. Lord help me.

frazzledlashawn.com said...

Holly, you just described my oldest son (almost 9). IT DRIVES ME INSANE!!!!

Seriously, I will be on the news with you.

Marci @Finding Joy in the Journey said...

Love this post because i have one of these. My 3 year old claims he is doing whatever I ask of him. I could say, please pick up your Legos, he would reply, "I am picking up the Legos, all the while playing his Leapster. This is an ingenious plan, but really it gets old quick..

the planet of janet said...

oh. yeah.

mominmentalmotion said...

Tuning in here! lol...boys, some of them have such a way about getting what they want, when they want. Sometimes their reasoning is so scary!

Teresa R said...

You actually pay attention to what your kids say? I tune them out. I have powerful earplugs.

Roger said...

Okay, if this posts twice, I apologize. Basically I said, my Mom always told me that no one messes with Momma, I did try it once though. Notice I only said once. I still fear her today. :) Okay not really, but that's only because she lives in Montana. :)

laughingatchaos said...

Oh my hell, that is my son, almost word for word. I'm going to wring his neck one of these days. The thing is, my brother was the.exact.same.way. And today my brother is a paralegal with the army, stationed in Germany. Give me strength, I'm raising my brother.

JCK said...

Oh the lash of the child's tongue. I'd watch for you on the News, but I might beat you to it.

Texan Mama @ Who Put Me In Charge said...

JUST yesterday, Texan Papa said to me: "In our house, it's a dictatorship. And I'm the dick."

WELL SAID, TEXAN PAPA!

Heather said...

Oye. My head is swimming.

Suzie said...

But I do I like peanut butter sniff I do

ShallowGal said...

I fucking WENT to law school and I still can't win an argument with my 8 year old.

xoxo, SG

Threeundertwo said...

There is no logic in our house. The one that drives me crazy? "Go do xyz!" "I am!" (as they sit and continue *not* doing xyz.

SuburbanCorrespondent said...

That sibling stuff just kills me.

Happy Campers said...

Awwwww....it's like arguing with a brick wall, isn' it? :)

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